This Is Your Life Podcast

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Transcribed by Ginger Schell. 1
This Is Your Life Podcast
Season 4, Episode 1
Published: May 6, 2015
Michael Hyatt
Stu McLaren: Welcome to
This Is Your Life
with Michael Hyatt, where our goal is to help you win at
work and succeed at life. As you can probably tell, I am not your regular host, Michele Cushatt,
because she is at home recovering from her battle with cancer. But the good news is she is beating
doctors’ predictions, and she is going to be back here before we know it. We’re very grateful for that.
My name is Stu McLaren, and I’m here in studio with the one-and-only Mr. Michael Hyatt. Welcome,
Michael!
Michael Hyatt: Thank you, Stu. Welcome! Thanks so much for sitting in for Michele!
Stu: I am honored. Big shoes to fill. She’s an amazing host, an amazing person. I can’t wait until she’s
back in studio.
Michael: I know. I can’t wait either. But I have to give you a proper introduction.
Stu: Okay.
Michael: I jotted a few notes. Stu is Canadian, in case you can’t tell.
Stu: Yes. So first of all, let’s just warn the listeners… You’re going to hear a little bit different of shouts
and abouts, I’m sure, so let’s just get that out of the way.
Michael: I love it when you talk like that. Stu is married to his lovely wife, Amy. He has two children,
including his youngest, Sam, whom they adopted from South Africa, and Marla, who is a gem. What is
she…three?
Stu: Yes, she’s three, going on four.
Michael: Yes, precious. Stu is the cofounder of WishList Member and a cofounder of Rhino Support.
He’s also the cofounder with me at Platform University and 5 Days to Your Best Year Ever. He’s one of
my best friends and just an all-around great guy. You’re going to love him. Stu, I can’t thank you
enough for being willing to do this. You have some big shoes to fill.
Stu: I do. I mean, I love listening to the show because Michele is just so fluid. She has great insights.
This Is Your Life Podcast Season 4, Episode 1
Transcribed by Ginger Schell. 2
Michael: Yeah.
Stu: But we’ll do our best. You know, we’re just going to hold down the fort until she’s back in. Let’s
get rolling.
Michael: All right. Let’s do it.
Stu: We’re kicking off the new season with this episode, and we’re going to talk about
the one way to
guarantee that you don’t succeed
. What? What are we talking about?
Michael: What?
Stu: Well, let’s take a little clip from your blog where you once wrote, “Success has many determining
factors, including dumb luck. But I’ve noticed one indispensable ingredient, without which, you cannot
possibly hope to succeed: that’s persistence. We’ve all seen talented, smart, and well-trained people
bottom out. Success takes something more—the willingness to keep going even when the odds are bad
and our enthusiasm has waned. President Calvin Coolidge supposedly said, ‘Nothing in the world can
take the place of persistence.’ The line actually goes back even farther, but the truth is indisputable.
Persistence is essential.”
Now I know persistence has been a factor in your success, but I want to rewind all the way back to
your childhood. Because I know there’s a story there where persistence played a big role. Can you tell
us about it?
Michael: Yeah. I think I began to learn persistence early on when I took up the guitar. Now I have to
give you the context. I had broken my elbow playing football. So that was kind of the end of my career,
and what I thought was the end of my opportunity to attract the girls. So I thought, “What’s the next
best thing? Oh! I can learn to play guitar! Okay.”
Stu: So if you can’t be an athlete, you’re going to be a musician.
Michael: Exactly right. One or the other. So my parents bought me a guitar, and I started taking lessons.
I’m thinking to myself at the beginning of this… Now you have to realize, I broke my arm playing
football so it was still in a cast when I got this guitar.
Stu: You had a handicap right from the get-go.
Michael: Yes, I had a handicap from the get-go, so I had to persist against that. But they got me some
lessons, and I thought to myself, “How hard could this be?” You know, you watch these people on TV,
and they’re amazing when they play guitar, and you think you just have to stand up there and look
cool, hold your mouth just right. You can do it! So I got the guitar. I found out it was a lot more difficult
than that, because mostly what came out of the guitar when I began to strum sounded like cats
screeching. I learned that I had to master scales and the chord patterns. My hands hurt.
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Stu: Yeah, because when you’re learning guitar, you really don’t realize how hard it is on your fingers.
Michael: That’s right. You don’t have the callouses built up yet. Frankly, this was a pretty cheap guitar,
so the strings were pretty far from the fret board. So it was just really challenging. I soon learned that it
wasn’t about talent so much as it was about persistence.
You know, in life, it’s not the people who are smart who succeed necessarily or the people who are the
most experienced or the people who have the most talent, but often it’s the people who persist. That
was true in playing guitar, and I became pretty good. I was a music major for the first two years of
college. Ended up switching to another major. I love music, but I only love it because I enjoyed learning
to play because I learned my scales. I learned the chords. I learned rudimentary stuff. I persevered
through those early days of making a lot of noise.
Stu: And you’ve recently jumped back into playing guitar. I know your daughter Madeline kind of
instigated that, and you guys went out and got a new guitar?
Michael: I did. That was such a joy. We went to the guitar store, and they were bringing me various
guitars. At this time in my life, I could afford a much better guitar than I could in those days. They
brought me this Martin guitar that was unbelievable. I literally…both of us, Madeline and I…just
started to spontaneously cry as I played it.
Stu: Wow. What a powerful moment!
Michael: It was a powerful moment. Yep.
Stu: Very cool. Well let’s talk about persistence, because you have six tricks for teaching or training
ourselves to persist. This is something we can learn, and I want to find out what those tricks are. Let’s
start with trick #1.
Michael: Okay, well we live in an instant-everything society. People don’t have a lot of persistence. If
you don’t get the results you want immediately, you switch to something else, and people do this in
marriages, in careers, in trying to learn an instrument…whatever it is, they switch. So these tricks are
designed to help you stay the course, build persistence, get the momentum so that you ultimately
succeed. The first trick I have is really about setting goals.
Take whatever project you’re trying to
tackle, and break it down into smaller goals so that you can really make it manageable
. It’s kind of the
old adage… How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
I can think back when I was wanting to write a book for the first time. I actually sold the concept (by
the way, that took huge persistence too because 29 publishers said no to me before the 30th one said
yes), signed the contract, and got paid a small amount of money. I was so excited for about two
minutes, and then I realized, “Oh my gosh! Now I have to write this book.” Well, I thought, “How hard
could that be?” Right?
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So I sat down and I wrote every day for two hours in the morning before work, trying to finish this,
and then the deadline was looming and I wasn’t even close to being finished. The only way I could
persist through that was to break it down into these small chunks and say, “I’m not writing a book; all
I’m trying to write is about a 1,000 to 2,000 words today.” Whatever my goal was for that day. I worked
off word count. I persisted until I got all the way through it.
Stu: Wow. I think goals in general have played a big role in your life.
Michael: They have.
Stu: This is really helping train you to be more persistent is using the goals as an asset to help you get
there.
Michael: Yep. Absolutely.
Stu: Awesome. That’s the first trick. Let’s get to the second trick of learning to teach yourself how to
persist.
Michael: The second trick is to
keep the end in mind, the ultimate outcome
. When I was writing my last
book
Platform: Get Noticed in a Noisy World
, again, I don’t know why every book is like this, but
they’re always difficult. I’ve written seven books, and this one was just as difficult as the first even
though I had learned some tricks and been through it before. I knew I would make it…
Stu: And you’ve been in the publishing world for years and years and years.
Michael: Decades.
Stu: This was no new experiment for you.
Michael: Oh my gosh… But I got that first draft done, and I was reviewing it. The manuscript was
already overdue. I was reviewing it and thinking to myself, “This isn’t that good. I don’t like it.” I was
really thinking to myself, “I’m going to give the advance money back to the publisher, and I’m just not
going to publish it.”
Stu: These are all the internal thoughts you were having.
Michael: All the internal thoughts I’m having. But then I got reconnected to the outcome I was after. I
just said to myself, “You know, what I’m really about, what I want this book to do is to help all these
authors I couldn’t help before,” because I didn’t have a book to give them.
Stu: Yep.
Michael: I wanted to help them build their platform so they could get their message out and get heard.
That was the thing that kept me going. It was to keep the end in mind and to think of the big picture.
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Stu: This was really important to you for that bigger picture of helping the authors, to help them spread
their message.
Michael: Yeah, absolutely. It really was the thing that made me say, “Okay. I’m going to go through
another edit of this manuscript. I’m going to clean it up. We’re going to publish it.”
Stu: Awesome. Okay, so that’s trick #2. Keep the end in mind. What’s the third trick?
Michael: I think the third trick is to
improve your pace and renew your enthusiasm
. I think there are
times when you just have to push through and when you have to pick up the pace a little bit, and even
though you want to quit, you just have to stay focused. The best thing that has helped me there is to
reconnect with my why. “Why am I doing this?”
In that case, with my book, I was thinking about all the readers I wanted to affect. I was thinking to
myself, “It’s important that I learn this skill of persevering. I have to practice not quitting myself. I
know what it’s going to do for my business, what it’s going to do for my speaking career, what it’s
going to do for every other aspect.” So that started giving me the enthusiasm and particularly to
visualize what it would be like when I had this thing done.
Stu: The victory.
Michael: The victory.
Stu: The finish line.
Michael: I literally wrote down in the midst of that on my goal sheet for the next year, because I always
have goals for the coming year, that I wanted to hit the New York Times list by the end of May. I think
that was in 2011. It was a very specific goal. It felt very audacious to me, but I thought, “Wow, if I could
do that…” I just let myself imagine it for a moment. “…what would it make possible?” It would have
made a lot possible. It would make possible the opportunity to reach more people, to get this message
this attention it deserved, to get more authors enrolled…all of that stuff. By the way, it did hit the New
York Times list by the end of May, so…
Stu: Which was amazing.
Michael: Which was amazing.
Stu: And it did open up those opportunities for you. A lot more speaking engagements…
Michael: It did, just as I envisioned. I would like to say every goal happens like that. Not every goal
does. But that one did, and it was an incredible encouragement to me.
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Stu: What a great thing it does too to reiterate the power of what we’re talking about here in learning to
persist. Because had you not persisted and gotten through that, you would never have finished the
book. You would never have reached the goal.
Michael: Oh, we wouldn’t be sitting here. I mean, it was the doorway. Little did I realize, but it was the
doorway that opened everything else. So just improving your pace, picking up the pace when you
want to quit. Keep pushing through. The truth is most of us can do more than we think we’re capable
of. We have more reserve than we think we might. There are times in the pursuit of any project or any
big goal that we just have to tap into that, kind of man up so to speak, and push through.
Stu: You talk about the messy middle, because we all face it. Learning to persist is really going to help
us get through that.
Michael: It really will, and that messy middle is something I think I picked up from Donald Miller the
first time I heard about it. It’s that middle of any pursuit of any goal or project or anything that’s
worthwhile. It could be your marriage or your kids. Could be anything. But where you just want to
quit. You’re not sure you have the strength to finish, but you’re also not sure you have the gas to go
back, so you’re kind of caught in the middle, and you ultimately do have to press on. That’s the messy
middle, and it’s easy to lose touch with why you’re even doing what you’re doing.
Stu: Well, we’re talking about six tricks we can all learn to train ourselves to persist. So far we’ve talked
about #1: set goals; #2: keep the end in mind; #3: improve your pace and renew your enthusiasm. We
still have three more tricks we’re going to get to right after this break.
If you’re like most members of my audience, you’re committed to winning at work and succeeding in
life, but the truth is you struggle with finding enough time to do it all. That’s exactly why I wrote my
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discover how to reclaim the margin you deserve. Sign up at michaelhyatt.com.
Stu: Welcome back. We are talking about one way to guarantee you don’t succeed. That is by not
learning how to persist. We’re sharing tricks on how to learn to persist. #1: set goals; #2: keep the end in
mind; #3: improve your pace and renew your enthusiasm. What’s trick #4?
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Michael: Trick #4 is to
run and walk
. There has to be recovery time even in the pursuit of a big goal if
we’re going to be able to persist. When we most want to quit is when we’re the most tired. We won’t
get as tired if we build in those recovery times.
I learned a great running technique from Jeff Galloway. He is the inventor of the run-walk method of
running. He’s had even really seasoned athletes improve their times in marathon races by not only
running, but also walking. So it looks like this: You might run for 30 seconds and then walk for 30
seconds. Or run for 30 seconds and walk for 90 seconds. There are a lot of different variations. You
have to do what’s right for you. But the point is that when you walk, you build in that recovery time.
You can actually improve your overall time by doing that because it turns out rest is really important.
When we just grind on a project… You know, this is not persistence. We just grind on a project. We
think we’re going to push through. We’re not going to take any breaks. We’re not going to take any
weekends. We’re not going to take any vacations. That’s a recipe for burnout. That’s not a recipe for
perseverance; it’s a recipe for burnout. When that happens, it’s not good for anybody. It’s not good for
you. It’s not good for the people around you.
Stu: That’s common, especially leaders, entrepreneurs…particularly your audience, because I know
you are an achiever, so the natural instinct there is just to keep working, keep working, keep going and
going. But what you’re saying here is that you have to take time to recover.
Michael: Well, think about this. You’re working on a project. You have a deadline. It’s late at night, and
you’re trying to push through, and it takes you four hours to do something that if you had a good
night’s sleep and were working on it in the morning, you could probably do in 20 minutes.
Stu: Right.
Michael: So you have to be smart. There’s a time when you have to stop and say, “Enough is enough. I
need more rest. I have to get sleep. I have to go out for a walk. I need a change of scenery.” Something
has to change. That’s a key to persistence over the long haul.
Stu: It’s interesting, when you were talking about Jeff Galloway’s method of running and walking… I
remember reading an article from a professional tennis trainer, and he was talking about the difference
between some of the top three or five tennis players in the world versus some of the other players. And
one of the distinctions that he discovered was that the very best players in the world were using the
time in between the actual game itself to just rest.
Michael: Wow.
Stu: They were standing still. They weren’t doing a lot of pacing. They weren’t doing a lot of walking.
They were using those few seconds (the 10-15 seconds in between when the girls or guys were playing)
to keep their bodies still and rest. Over time, over the course of the match, it accumulated to quite a bit
of rest time. He was saying in the article how that impacts the players’ endurance and all that kind of
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stuff, so it’s amazing how even in a tennis match or in a race or what have you, those little rest periods
accumulate and become a big deal.
Michael: Yeah, they sure do. You have to build it in.
Stu: So #4 is to run and walk. What’s the fifth trick to learning to persist?
Michael:
Kill the distractions
. You know, stay focused. I think one of the reasons we don’t persist is
because we get so distracted by so many things. It’s like the squirrel syndrome.
Stu: Yeah. Squirrel!
Michael: You see this bright shiny object or the squirrel that’s off in the distance, you stop what you’re
doing, and you go running after that rather than persisting on course. So the more focus you can have,
the fewer distractions you have, the more traction you can gain, the more momentum you can build,
and the more likely you are to finish.
Stu: This is hard, though, especially the more success you have, because more opportunities come your
way. How do
you
kill distractions?
Michael: I think it’s getting really crystal clear on what it is I’m called to do. It’s not very many things. I
don’t have to do everything; I just need to do what I’m called to do and do it very well. When those
opportunities come up, and believe me, I struggle with this. You know this. Those opportunities are
sometimes, usually hard, to say no to them.
Stu: Especially when it’s coming from people you know, like, and want to work with.
Michael: Yeah, that’s right. But what I have to remember is that in order to say no, I have to be
committed to a bigger yes.
Stu: Hmm.
Michael: Do you know what I’m saying?
Stu: Yes. Say that again because that’s great.
Michael: Okay. In order to say no, I have to be committed to a bigger yes. So when I say no to that
business opportunity to go on that great speaking engagement, what I’m really saying yes to is staying
home with Gail, staying home with my family and friends, or staying focused on a bigger project that I
know is going to have much longer term value than just that one speaking engagement.
Stu: So that’s kill the distractions. What’s your sixth and final trick to learning how to persist?
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Michael: The sixth and final trick is to
change your self-image
. I know a lot of people don’t see
themselves as very persistent. They might even see themselves as quitters. Maybe they had an
experience where they quit on something. Maybe they quit on a marriage or a job or on something else,
and they kind of develop this self-image that doesn’t help them going forward. It may have been true
in that one instance, but when they universalize it or globalize it, it doesn’t serve them well.
I think you have to ask yourself the question, “What is that inner dialogue happening?” You have to
repeat to yourself, “You know what? I don’t quit. I’m a finisher.” I know when I’m in the gym, and I’m
doing, for example, this simple thing I was doing yesterday…pushups. My trainer wanted me to go to
20. As I’m doing those, I’m not thinking, “I might not make it.” I’m not thinking, “This is more than
I’ve done in one set.” I’m thinking to myself, “2-0. I’m going to push through and I’m going to get 2-0.”
So I’m thinking positively what I’m trying to accomplish. And it worked.
Stu: I remember, because here I am cohosting the show, but I’m a big fan of the show. I’ve listened to
you and Michele. I remember Michele reiterating a story of her son when he was learning to become a
runner. They went for a run, and they had a marker as far as where they would end the run, and her
son finished short. She used that as an opportunity to say, “Listen, no. We don’t ever stop. We always
go through to the end and finish.”
Michael: Yeah.
Stu: I thought, as a parent, that’s just a great lesson to be able to teach your kids as well. Not only to
teach them, but to demonstrate to them as well.
Michael: It’s important even if you have to walk to the end, to get to the end somehow, because to
develop that self-image of being a finisher is really important. It builds confidence so that when we
take that next project, there’s always going to come that time when you’re in the messy middle when
you want to quit, but if you persevered before, if you’ve made it through before, you know you’re
going to make it through.
Stu: It’s like a muscle.
Michael: It’s like a muscle. I mean, we’re in the middle of a launch right now, a product launch, and
you know, it’s kind of that messy middle where you’re not quite sure what the results are going to be.
You’re going to make your goals; you’re not going to make your goals. But we’ve been through this
loop a lot of times, and we know we’re going to be fine.
Stu: You begin to trust yourself. You begin to know no matter what challenges you’re going to face,
you’re going to persist and get through it.
Michael: You’re going to have the resources to figure it out.
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Stu: A few years back, I was in a running race in Hawaii. It was a 13-kilometer race. One of the things I
loved was at the end of it, they gave you tee shirts, and on the back it said, “Finisher.”
Michael: I love that.
Stu: Yeah, I love that. It was like labeling yourself as a finisher.
Michael: That’s a great label.
Stu: Yeah, awesome. Okay… So we’ve talked about six tricks for training ourselves to persist. #1: set
goals; #2: keep the end in mind; #3: improve your pace and renew your enthusiasm; #4: run and walk;

5: kill the distractions; #6: change your self-image. As we wrap up this episode, I want to ask you to

share some of the big temptations to quit and how we can beat them. So let’s get started with that.
Michael: Okay. I just have four of these. The #1 temptation is
misperceptions about how long it should
take
. Here’s reality: things always take longer than you think.
Stu: Come on now, seriously?
Michael: I’m in the middle of finishing a big construction project that has taken exactly twice as long as
we thought it would take. As long as I had that misperception, there’s going to be the temptation to
quit. But if I have the perception that it is going to probably take twice as long as I factor, then I’m not
surprised when it happens and I’m able to persevere and press through and get to the other side.
Stu: I think this is interesting not only with the length of time, but I find this temptation also with
people. If you begin to see that people react in a common way, and you expect a different reaction, I
think that can be dangerous in the sense that you’re being tempted by a misperception of the person
and how they may react or their behavior, but as you’re saying here, but also misperception about how
long it will take with certain projects. Interesting.
Michael: Yep.
Stu: What other big temptations are we going to face to quit?
Michael: Another one is just
discouragement over the apparent lack of progress
. When I first started
blogging in 2004, I was writing a little sporadically but pretty consistently, but I couldn’t attract in four
years over a thousand readers a month. It would have been easy for me to quit, to just throw in the
towel and say, “This is more effort than it’s worth. I’m never going to build a platform.” Even though
we didn’t use the word
platform
in those days. But in 2008, I suddenly went from an average of 1,000
unique visitors a month to 22,000 unique visitors a month.
Stu: That’s a pretty staggering increase.
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Michael: It was like the hockey stick, right? All the increase came in that fifth year. Then it has grown
exponentially since then to where now I enjoy about 500,000 unique visitors a month. But I could have
quit in year four, because I could have been discouraged over the apparent lack of progress and said,
“It’s just not worth it.” Most people quit right before the inflection point.
Stu: Right when they’re closest to success.
Michael: And if they would just hang in there and just give it a little while longer, they might see the
good results of all their work.
Stu: So that’s another temptation: discouragement over an apparent lack of progress.
Michael: Yeah, another temptation is
the temptation to go it alone
. This is where people often get stuck.
The Lone Ranger kind of phenomenon. One of the best hacks, if you will, one of the best ways to finish
and keep moving toward your goals and to persist is to bring in outside support. Don’t go it alone. It
may be your spouse that you enroll. It may be a friend or an accountability partner or an accountability
group or a mastermind. Or you might hire somebody. Like I know we both have personal trainers
because we wouldn’t get in the gym otherwise.
Stu: A good example… I’ve shared this with you personally. When we went away for our adoption, we
were gone for six weeks to South Africa. Prior to that, I had been consistently going to the gym three
times a week. Never failed. I was there every time three times a week. When we went to South Africa, I
exercised three times the entire six weeks I was there. It was pretty pathetic.
Michael: Different frequency.
Stu: Yeah. I definitely attribute it to just having that accountability partner, that somebody who is just
there to hold me accountable, which for me is my trainer, but it could be a friend, a spouse, a mentor, a
coach…all kinds of people. As you said, the temptation is to go it alone, especially for entrepreneurs.
Michael: Oh yeah, we think somehow there’s a badge of honor if we’ve gone it alone, but that’s not
how it works.
Stu: So that’s another temptation. Any others?
Michael: Yeah, the final one is
getting disconnected from our why
. People lose their way when they
lose their why. One of the best ways to make sure we persist is constantly asking ourselves, “Why is
this important? What’s at stake? What’s at stake if I complete it? What’s at stake if I don’t complete it?
What are the consequences either way?” But really staying connected to why you’re doing what you’re
doing. That will keep you persisting.
That’s why I stayed in my marriage when things got tough. That’s why I stayed with my kids, even
though I wanted to throttle them when they were misbehaving as teenagers. But it was just
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remembering the bigger why, the bigger context. That for me has been the single biggest success
formula, if you will, for staying in the race and finishing. Keeping that why very present to me.
Stu: You talked about that earlier in this episode, particularly with your book. How the why of helping
so many other authors and people wanting to build their platform was so important to you and that’s
what really helped drive you through and persist.
Michael: Yep.
Stu: Well, I want to thank you, Michael. And I want to thank you…the listener, because we have been
talking about how to teach ourselves to be better at persisting. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, you can
get the show notes and the full transcript over at Michael’s blog, over at michaelhyatt.com. If you’d
rather look at us and watch us, you can see the full video on his website as well.
Lastly, I’d love to ask you a favor. Can you just take 30 seconds, jump over to iTunes, and just rate the
podcast? The reason being is because we want to attract more people like you to the show. The only
way we can do that is if you rate it, which helps get the show more visibility. So take 30 seconds and do
that for us. It would be greatly appreciated.
Michael, as we wind down today’s episode, do you have any final thoughts?
Michael: I do. You know, there’s nothing in life that is worth accomplishing that doesn’t come with
resistance. That requires persistence. The only way you can win is to push through the resistance and
persist to get to the other side. It’s a muscle we all need to learn to develop so when you have the
opportunity to exercise it, welcome it. Don’t resent it, but welcome it.
Stu: Well, thank you. Thank you for listening. And thank you for joining us today.
Until next time, remember… Your life, your one-and-only life, is a gift. Now go make it count.